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Forum » Games We Play (MP & Others) » Killzone » Killzone 3
Killzone 3
nivasan6Date: Friday, 04/February/2011, 8:52:08 PM | Message # 106
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Guz, you make some excellent points, and there isn't much I can say. I can't say I agree wholeheartedly with guns being varied. In general terms are guns are essentially the same, and in theory with the guns being rather similar to one another the excuse that this weapon is overpowered and that weapon is overpowered can't really be made which should be a good thing. Not only that but in the way you put it with the guns being similar wouldn't that mean that people are on an even playing field?

Guz, if you get BC2 let me know because I want to buy it as well even though I bashed the BC series I truly like DICE and most if not all of their games. I also tend to like just about anything that was published by Sony, or in other words exclusive titles. Guerrilla Games is just trying to make their game more accessible because many people complained about the controls in Killzone 2 which as many of you know in here are perfect imo. What do you mean people like you? If I'm not mistaken you too enjoy a variety of games with vastly differing controls.

Going back to cod, how are they more varied? All I see is the same old thing time and time again. Until they change that franchise I will never again respect it.

Not sure if it was two-hits or one-hit, because I used to just mash the L1 button for that, lol. The new melee kills in Killzone 3 is sick, I punctured this Infiltrator's eyes out while he was in disguise, lol.

Guz, I appreciate the offer. I wanted that full Helghast suit during the mini competition during Killzone 2.

Going back onto other games, the only games that I don't enjoy is cod, lol. I even enjoyed the so called flop that was MoH.

 
redhamuSLADate: Saturday, 05/February/2011, 6:07:51 PM | Message # 107
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Med Class:  Why does it need a bot?  You tell me, niv-kz-fanboy.  LOL.  Naw, just playing.  I'm pretty sure it's for a few reasons -- 1. I'm pretty sure you can't zap opponents anymore, nor have the zapper out by itself  2. Zapper comes out pretty damn slow &  3. You have to be damn close to even rev someone.  As such, I'm pretty sure the bot serves as a deterrent/distraction for both the opponents & their bots so you can get your rev on. 

In reality, it helps the Med know when enemies are near and/or where they are, if across an open space on a larger map.  I've had my bot shoot at peeps on the other side of the ravine in Warzone.  It can also finish people off, get assists (leading to 'Bullet Damage' perk/ribbon) & discourage people to finish you off, resulting in a possible self-rev and all the goodies involved with that.  

A small side note on self-rev:  You can only self-rev once per life, but it will continue your killstreak.  As such, it is probably best to take the regular respawn if you are close to your spawn & haven't already killed anyone.  LOL.   

KZ3:  I told Kuzu this last night, but thought I'd tell everyone about it.  I'm pretty sure The KZ3 beta is 720p native.  As such, if your screen is set to a higher resolution, there's probably downscaling lag.  I noticed a pretty big difference last night when I bumped my monitor down.  (^_-)b


 
KuzuDate: Sunday, 06/February/2011, 2:07:41 AM | Message # 108
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Quote (redhamuSLA)
Sitting-back-in-their-base snipers are still FUCKING ANNOYING. Goddamn that shit gets old in Warzone. I fucking get their asses like 3 times in a row & they STILL go back. Get a couple of them in different spots & it's just dumb. They aren't even playing the modes. (-"-; )p

<-- me, after u left!

TBH, this is fun for me, because of the "weird" controls. (trying not to call them heavy). i played for a good 4 hours last night, and still no closer to feeling comfy with the controls. i think it also has to do with what Ban said; something about the game display just doesnt sit right with me. maybe there is less view, maybe because of the movement delay when turning, maybe cuz things like scopes take up so much room (non-ADS), maybe cuz of the dark border on the screen, i dunno. i dont feel good (in terms of physical condition) running around, with sluggish controls, with less field of view. so that means i wont use infiltrator, or medic, or tactician. that leaves engineer, using an LMG, camping, at medium ranges. or sniping, which we know whats gonna happen.

so ill probably just snipe. being the type of guy Red was talking about. its the only class where the controls dont affect me, thereby making it the least annoying class for me to use, and the one i can probably do the most damage with. plus i just have immense fun sniping without having to worry about holding my breath and quick-scopers countering me! i can snipe the way i like to. sitting in a spot, covering a heavy traffic zone, and getting cheap kills (though is it? im helping by giving covering fire and watching open areas).

sorry, but i dont think my equilibrium can handle run n gun for this game. which means i most likely wont be in a team-oriented mindset. then again, looks like the number of us playing has already shrunk.


 
KuzuDate: Sunday, 06/February/2011, 2:25:18 AM | Message # 109
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Quote (nivasan6)
Kuzu, you do know that the characters are wearing "heavy-duty" helmets thus it would reduce the speed one would be able to turn their head. This is especially true in real life.

Why say Killzone 3 is the exact same thing as Killzone 2 and sound negative, but yet cod gets praise for what copying and pasting their code? Killzone 3 is a lot different than Killzone 2 in nearly all aspects. The guns should stay relatively the same since it's a staple in the Killzone franchise. How many of you are going to complain about Resistance 3 because they barely updated the weapons catalog? I'm guessing none.

... the game is not THAT realistic. if so, it should take about 2 hours to set up a turret, not 2 seconds. anyways, even if i give u the benefit of the doubt with weight, i still think the field of view is smaller than in any other game (FPS or not) that ive played. this, coupled with having a slower turning speed, has an effect on the average gamer. im not saying "its crap" or "why didnt they copy COD". i will adjust, but i dont think i will enjoy the game unless i sit still with a long-range AR, LMG, or sniper rifle. i dont want to run n gun in this game, it just doesnt sit well with my eyes, stomach, or sense of motion. u keep bringing things back to COD, but i dont hate KZ the way u hate COD so its not really fair. i dont dislike KZ. the reason we wont complain about guns in Resi is because, well, they are fun. they are completely varied, with completely different abilities which take very different skill to use. as u said, KZ guns are basically the same just for diff ranges. but whatever. i can live with the guns. the sound department (though i love the opening credits) did very little to make things different, which didnt excite me in KZ2, so i feel disappointed. the point though, as Guz said, is that if YOU enjoy the game, that is great. u are never going to convince every single person that what u like is the best, nor are we obviously going to convince u that what we like is great (and "we" is hard to define, since "we" all like different things anyway).

dont jump to conclusions on what im saying. i agree with what others are saying, that doesnt mean i dont enjoy the game. i am VERY easy when it comes to games. unless its a horrible game, i basically love the game for whatever it has to offer. this is not a horrible game. i like plenty of things about it, though im still trying to figure out exactly WHAT that is. maybe i DO like it cuz its not just a run n gun, frenetic, spazzy twitch shooter like COD. maybe i actually DO like that it feels slow (though i cant take advantage of the controls, which upsets me as a competitive person, since i want to master things to the best of my ability) just its hard for me to accept that. maybe i will snipe in every game i play, and be content/happy with that. point is, it doesnt matter what we all think, either individually or collectively. we are not trying to argue with u, rather just state our opinions of a game. i love gaming, thats where i stand.


 
KuzuDate: Sunday, 06/February/2011, 2:29:59 AM | Message # 110
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Quote (redhamuSLA)
I told Kuzu this last night, but thought I'd tell everyone about it. I'm pretty sure The KZ3 beta is 720p native. As such, if your screen is set to a higher resolution, there's probably downscaling lag. I noticed a pretty big difference last night when I bumped my monitor down. (^_-)b

sry it didnt register in my brain last night. if u record with the Hauppauge, ur screen *should* be set to 720p. that is the highest it will record in. if u set it to higher, that may have had an effect on ur downscaling lag, despite what the native reso of KZ3 is.


 
redhamuSLADate: Sunday, 06/February/2011, 3:55:08 AM | Message # 111
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Naw, it had nothing to do with recording. I haven't tried recording KZ yet & I know about the HDPVR's limitations. The game doesn't natively do 1080p, which is what my monitor's resolution is set at. Before knocking my settings down (cuz I saw someone mention in on the KZ.com forums) the script & chatroom were bloated & grainy. After knocking it down, everything readjusted in both scale & clarity.

I feel like I'm pretty sensitive to lag, being that I played on the PS3 for 3 years with zero lag & I actually felt a difference. Minor it might have been, but noticeable & important as such things are in the online FPS world. Heh. (^_-)b


 
nivasan6Date: Sunday, 06/February/2011, 12:25:42 PM | Message # 112
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I wasn't trying to argue, but rather stating my opinions too. Sorry, if I sounded like a prick, lol. I brought up the other games to reinforce my opinions. With that said everyone one of you have solid points.

About the guns in Resistance the same can be said about them being relatively the same. Sure they look, sound, and for the most part handle differently, but they are all essentially the same. The same concepts of modern weaponry can be applied to Resistance as well. I love the Resistance franchise as well, but I'm just using the franchise to reinforce my opinion. The Bullseye is essentially a SMG, the Carbine is your standard M4, Fareye standard M24 sniper, Auger can be seen as a powerful assault rifle, etc... The same about each gun requiring differing skills can be applied to every game including cod. I'm not hating on Resistance.

I'm not convincing anyone that Killzone is the best. I know I'm not going too convince anyone that Killzone is the best.

Kuzu, as you said before, not sure if you meant it or not, but Killzone has never been a run n' gun game. It has always been slower paced and tactical. I agree with you that the game can make people feel uncomfortable, but I guess it doesn't affect me because I'm been used to Killzone and these type of games for awhile now.

red, thanks again for the clarification on the medic class and their bots. I still don't agree with that design choice, lol, it seems that their philosophy for this game was introduce more bots, yay, lol.

Kuzu, you make an excellent point about "ultra realism", but I think they are trying to be realistic in the moving department. As you said about being ultra realistic, no one in the game can just run around with the LMG and kill everyone without feeling the wrath of the recoil.

I still hope I see most of the clan similar to how it was in Killzone 2, those were some fun times.

 
KuzuDate: Sunday, 06/February/2011, 10:11:55 PM | Message # 113
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Quote (redhamuSLA)
I feel like I'm pretty sensitive to lag, being that I played on the PS3 for 3 years with zero lag & I actually felt a difference. Minor it might have been, but noticeable & important as such things are in the online FPS world. Heh. (^_-)b

r u playing on ur on Mac, or new PC monitor?
i dont have experience with that setup, but along my travels at trying to reduce input lag, ive come across plenty of sites on that topic. u may want to do some research, as im pretty sure there are ways to get a very minimal or non-existent input lag setup on PS3-to-PC. there are several ways to connect. HDMI, DVI and varying degrees of VGA. (ask guz? lol)


 
redhamuSLADate: Sunday, 06/February/2011, 10:27:05 PM | Message # 114
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Kuzu: I'm playing on my new PC monitor. I got it specifically for gaming & because it has a 2ms input lag (basically the fastest without paying an assload...though my monitor wasn't 'inexpensive' by any means).

Here's a great article/review on it (these guys are awesome!):

http://www.digitalversus.com/samsung....36.html

So, literally, the lag I was getting which I couldn't recognize cuz I just thought it was the game was from the downscaling. I'm thinking it bumped the lag up to somewhere between 3-8ms or something. Like I said, minor, but noticeable.


 
KuzuDate: Sunday, 06/February/2011, 10:51:16 PM | Message # 115
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im not trying to argue with u here, but i dont believe that the human eye even notices something at that speed. that is between 3/1000th to 8/1000th of a second, or 1/333rd to 1/125th of a second. i think only those high-speed cameras u see on the Discovery channel are capable of viewing that. i believe some tests have been done to confirm that the eye doesnt notice less than 10ms.

 
redhamuSLADate: Monday, 07/February/2011, 2:03:44 AM | Message # 116
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Yeah, I saw that too...8 m/s or something. The number doesn't really matter to me, just that it was noticeable whatever it was. I was just guesstimating. (^_-)b

 
GuzmanDate: Monday, 07/February/2011, 9:18:14 PM | Message # 117
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Quote (nivasan6)
Guz, you make some excellent points, and there isn't much I can say.

Really? Honestly, re-reading my previous post, they are quite lame. lol.
Nah, a response isn't really needed. All this is entirely subjective. It's either your thing or it isn't ^_-

Quote (nivasan6)
I can't say I agree wholeheartedly with guns being varied.

When I talk about being varied, I mean many things. Some of these things I'll point out may be pretty dumb, but it's how I honestly feel.

Visual Appearance: Very shallow complaint, but really not one of my main ones. It's definitely the kinda thing I could overlook. But this is simply how the gun looks. Don't get me wrong, as I love the the overall "Toughness/Grittyness" of the guns, but to me, in a way, they look very similar. They aren't instantly distinguishable from their counterparts. This is very difficult to explain, & I prob look like a dumb for bringing this up. (To be clear I "can" tell the difference, lol) But aside from the shotty & snipers, the assualt rifles & SMGs generally look the same. The game has the Dark Futuristic look to it, so I definitely understand why they are like that.

I actually have this issue in BO as well. Many of the guns use identical Iron Sights there. A big deal? Nah, but I feel the guns lose their identity in the process, & in a game focused so heavily on the weapons it kinda loses something IMO.
....The best way I can put it is, it's like, oh yeah! THIS gun! I love this gun! I dunno, hopefully that makes some sense.

Visual Feedback: Uh, most easily described as muzzle flash I guess. Paired with "Feel" feedback, this can give the gun it's sense of power or otherwise when shot. I'd also add hit recognition here.

"Feel" Feedback: Not rumble, but the actual feel you get when firing the weapon. Very hard to explain, again, but anyone who has played a shooter should know what I mean. Is the gun fun to fire? How does the recoil feel when shot?

All these things feed into the "identity" of the guns. Depending on different features in a game, some aspects can be forgiven in favor of others. Just from playing the KZ3 Beta, the guns essentially fall into the same category on all above examples. As you say, guns are generally the same; Resi is a different kind of shooter w/ silly alien weapons, so I won't compare it here. So COD is the next most recent & comparable game; while the weapons are essentially the same, they still have some features that set them apart.

 
GuzmanDate: Monday, 07/February/2011, 9:18:34 PM | Message # 118
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Quote (nivasan6)
In general terms are guns are essentially the same, and in theory with the guns being rather similar to one another the excuse that this weapon is overpowered and that weapon is overpowered can't really be made which should be a good thing. Not only that but in the way you put it with the guns being similar wouldn't that mean that people are on an even playing field?

Yeah, one would think that huh? In regards to KZ3, I absolutely agree, & it is a good thing. There have been some BS deaths here & there from the time I've spent on it, (Which I question exactly what it is that killed me) but for the most part I do feel the guns are balanced. Besides, there isn't a game out there where you don't at some point question that "dumb" outcome. So it's forgivable.

In a game like COD, again, the guns are essentially the same, for all intents & purposes, but that doesn't stop them from being overpowered. Though so much random shit occurs in that game it's difficult to determine what exactly is to blame.

Alright, done w/ nerd mode here.

Quote (nivasan6)
I also tend to like just about anything that was published by Sony, or in other words exclusive titles.

Haha, that much is certain.

Quote (nivasan6)
What do you mean people like you? If I'm not mistaken you too enjoy a variety of games with vastly differing controls.

That's true. What I mean by this is that I'm not the "target audiance," or rather, a KZ fan. If someone who plays COD came in the R3 forums & started spouting shit about how the game should have killcams, or "do this like COD," It'd bug me. I'd be thinking: "Dude, go leave my game alone & go play your shit." So what I'm saying, as an outsider to the series, I really have no say. The KZ fans like it, then let them have it. Maybe selfish, but true!

Quote (nivasan6)
Going back to cod, how are they more varied? All I see is the same old thing time and time again. Until they change that franchise I will never again respect it.

It's not, you're right. It's fundamentally the same game with each release. Without getting into too much detail here, some basic differences:
-Varying gun selection
-Varying Killstreaks
-Differing appearance, for better or worse. What I'm saying here is that if you glanced @ a screen w/COD4/W@W/MW2/BO, it would be instantly recognizable.

Even for BO, all the guns have varying recoil, which is another aspect of identity.

Message edited by Guzman - Monday, 07/February/2011, 9:36:48 PM
 
GuzmanDate: Monday, 07/February/2011, 9:18:46 PM | Message # 119
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These are all moot points if you don't care, but they still can give each game its own flavor in a way. So you know, I don't think that COD isn't stagnant, or that it's a better title than KZ. Just some observations on my part. I'm just saying that I think KZ3 didn't change enough or bring anything new to the table. Even if it's stupid inconsequencial stuff that doesn't really matter, it can give the game a new sheen, so to speak, IDK. There are changes as you say, but not many from what I can tell. Many are likely under the hood too.

Though, I want you to know I don't hate the game. I've played a bit more the other night with Mr. Alu, & I'm kinda getting it now. I've come to terms with the fact that you can't really go in guns blazing like I prefer to do, if possible. Not to say it's campy. (aside from the occasional cloaked nubber hiding in the corner... >_<) It's just a much more methodical shooter than what I'm used to. For what it is, It's definitely not a bad game. It just comes down to the fact that it's just not really my thing. That's all.

About saying the game is virtually the same is an unfair assessment, I'll def admit that. There are many things in the retail product yet to be experienced that most likely help differenciate the game from it's predessor, such as jetpacks.

I apologize if I've reiterated myself alot too.

An observations I've made from playing:
As everyone knows, crouching reduces crosshair spread, but man is it profound in KZ3. If the guy isn't in complete close quarters, I''ve begun to crouch-shot them constantly now. Helps tremendously.

BTW, Anyone seen the tip on the loading screen, "How are you liking the controls? do you find yourself meleeing the air? change them in the options menu."
LOL, Why yes, I have found myself doing that, thanks! (I was a dummy & forgot to look em over before I jumped in!)

*The above post is a bit dated, I started typing it up the other day*

I will say that the infiltrator is obnoxious, & that LMG is still gross.
& Good playing w/ you last night niva. Sorry for the quick departure... I now know that a match of Warzone is a 1/2 hour commitment, lol.
Lastly... I agree w/ Kuzu saying the Resi weaps require a more diverse skillset to yield good results.

....OK.. Done!

Message edited by Guzman - Monday, 07/February/2011, 9:37:32 PM
 
redhamuSLADate: Monday, 07/February/2011, 10:09:33 PM | Message # 120
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Yes, Infil is quite obnoxious & LMG is dumb. They should make it so that Infil can't have/use Proximity Mines & LMG needs to take more bullets to kill, IMO.

 
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