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Killzone 3
KuzuDate: Monday, 07/February/2011, 11:00:10 PM | Message # 121
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i love guzmans posts, because he lays things out practically, with good explanations but without making excessive generalizations or offensive remarks. i know i am guilty of getting carried away with my comments, making broad generalizations, assuming before asking, and being an ass, at times. Sowwy guys!

i have to say, i agreed 90% on the button with what Guz said. although, i still think COD games offer a great deal when it comes to weapons, not just because there are so many or because there are so many attachments, but i think they really feel different, sound different, and handle different. take the SMGs. there are short range, high recoil guns (MAC10, uzi). there is an extremely accurate, yet small clipped Skorpion. there are a handful of similar mid-range SMGS that dont differ much, but their appearance, iron sights, and "feel" stand apart from each other. there are a few slower firing, yet higher damage guns (MP5, ak74u). even if we generalize, that makes at least 4 categories of SMGs. we can basically do the same for all weapon classes (ok, shotties in BO suck) so u can see why ppl prefer this. the weapons, to me, do have a different feel. they do have different attributes. so maybe we dont need 10 different guns in a particular category, but having only 1-2 in KZ just feels like im being shortchanged.

i do find it ironic though, that in BO, known for being a arcade-style, self-centered, shootemup whatever u wanna call it, i could barely get 2kills with the same clip (non-LMG guns). yet in KZ3, which (despite if we believe that its truly "faster") still caters to a different crowd, i can get 3kills in one clip. (though rare for me, since i dont run n gun).

its also weird, as u guys obviously dont like the 2 guns i use most (sniper, LMG), that i find it pretty difficult to kill with the LMG. i swear im putting 2-3shots into guys, from a semi-close-medium range, and they just walk right through it. it feels like i need to put 5 shots into a guy, coming at me in a straight line, in order to down them. i have a very low kill rate when shooting players going from side to side. i know, for one, that there is very little, if no aim-assist, so my aim may clearly be to blame. but i also feel it takes quite a few shots to kill, or that the accuracy is pretty bad on the LMG. i get killed by LMGs all the time, so i can understand where u guys have the hatred for them too. tahts why i like my sniper rifle. 1HK just about anywhere on the player!


 
nivasan6Date: Tuesday, 08/February/2011, 8:11:46 AM | Message # 122
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The guns in Killzone all behave differently too. If you compare the M82 and St52 they are vastly different not only in physical appearance but the way the gun handles too. Their are also a lot of differences with the two SMG's.

Guz, I know that I'm being general here, but you can put the same skillset that military type shooters have into the Resistance franchise and be successful. I mentioned in a post earlier about how the weapons in Resistance have counter parts in real weaponry.

The LMG is garbage just run into a room and kill everyone. Kuzu, I find it hard to believe that anyone especially you would have a hard time using the LMG. It's not ironic given that it takes a lot to kill someone in cod, as you said it is an arcade style shooter thus players are more resistance to damage.

Another reason why there aren't many guns in Killzone is simply because the game is more about atmosphere and teamwork than weaponry.

Guz, if you showed cod's you mentioned to someone not familiar with games they might as well tell you that they are essentially the same. If they didn't change the time frame in the cod games then it would be pretty hard to distinguish between them. I will agree with you that it would be hard for people who have never experienced a Killzone game to be able to distinguish between 2 and 3, but for those who have I would assume that it would be rather easy. Killzone 3 does look better than Killzone 2 and the environments are changed more so than what was seen in Killzone 2 and the guns do look different. So, with those points and others that I have not mentioned, it should be easy to distinguish between the two.

Guz, for someone who doesn't really like the Killzone franchise, you're really good at it. If I'm not mistaken you have the best k/d in the clan for the beta, but a somewhat disappointing w/l. While I joined you I saw that you were getting kills everywhere, not sure if it was your skill or the M82, but you were all over the place.

I never fully used the Marksman class yet in online. I stole their battle rifle and got a four kill streak easily. There were all these snipers coming down these stairs and, I stood at the bottom killing them all. I believe Guz was down there too, we had that area locked down for a few minutes, but they still kept trying to get in.

Guz, crouching does help a lot since it makes since it would increase one's accuracy.

I hate how there are no spawn grenades, the capturing of spawn points is rather dumb and if a team gets all of them and holds them than it's essentially game over. I played a match with Alu, but he left and the other team had all three spawn points, my team did end up winning 4-3. Tactician is almost useless unless there are a few on your team. But, even then they shouldn't have removed the spawn nades. Now the Tactician class isn't tactical at all, lol, unless the person playing the class is tactical. By not having spawn nades the game is almost encouraging base camping, and I hate base camping. It was prevalent and easy to do in Killzone 2, but at least you know you had a way out and let everyone out too; with a well placed spawn nade.

I am most likely done with the beta since I didn't win the limited Helghast Edition sad , lol. No, but seriously I am done with the beta unless anyone of you want me to squad up with you. I do win most of my matches too. I am definitely getting the game since I had the Helghast edition pre-ordered since November, and from what I can see there is only one map, and I don't need Killzone practice, lol.

 
KuzuDate: Tuesday, 08/February/2011, 9:18:24 PM | Message # 123
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(my god, this is the 3rd time im writing this, since the page erases when i add a new quote)

Quote (nivasan6)
The guns in Killzone all behave differently too. If you compare the M82 and St52 they are vastly different not only in physical appearance but the way the gun handles too. Their are also a lot of differences with the two SMG's.

i agree with u. but u also just illustrated my point. KZ3 offers 2 guns for SMG and AR. COD games typically offer 10 for each. even if we eliminate the "repeat" guns that behave similarly, there are basically 4 sets of guns in each category.
SMG = high acc/small clip (skorpion), high ROF/recoil (mac10, uzi, mini-uzi), med ROF/recoil (the bulk), lower ROF/high dmg (mp5, UMP, ak74u)
AR = semi-auto (FAL, m14, g3), burst (m16, famas), full auto (the bulk), unique guns (g11, Aug/Stoner, f2000)
im not trying to argue that quantity is necessarily better, but for me having choices and variation is better.

Quote (nivasan6)
The LMG is garbage just run into a room and kill everyone. Kuzu, I find it hard to believe that anyone especially you would have a hard time using the LMG. It's not ironic given that it takes a lot to kill someone in cod, as you said it is an arcade style shooter thus players are more resistance to damage.

like ive been trying to say, i dont run around with guns in KZ. so im not in the same situations. i sit back, with cover, and fire from medium ranges. i do find it hard to kill with the LMG, yet im not complaining. i agree, its a beast when hip firing going into a room with several ppl. but i dont do that. so i dont think its quite as effective at "cover fire", like they are designed to be. i think even the in-game descriptions are to blame: they basically tell u to hipfire, at close quarters, and everyone seems to follow this advice! lol

about COD, i may be contradicting myself, but let me explain. in all of the COD games ive played (4, 6, 7), the same health system seems to be in place, and it is easy to kill people. i think u would agree, that is the main reason why ppl play it in the first place: get quick, easy kills. what i mean to say about BO, is that although the same stats apply, something about it is harder to kill mutliple players with one clip. maybe its the recoil. maybe players have learned not to bunch up so much. maybe ppl are just more aware and have better reactions. i dunno. i think we both agree that KZ is more of a team game, where players go for the objective much more than they do in COD. for that reason, players really bunch up in rooms, in stairways, in doorways, so maybe thats why its easier to get bigger multi-kills. im not saying its easier to kill in KZ, because overall i dont think that. i dont really know what my point is here.

Quote (nivasan6)
if you showed cod's... to someone not familiar with games they might as well tell you that they are essentially the same. If they didn't change the time frame in the cod games then it would be pretty hard to distinguish between them. I will agree...that it would be hard for people who have never experienced a Killzone game to be able to distinguish between 2 and 3, but for those who have I would assume that it would be rather easy.

this is the same for any game series, isnt it? and i guess why all this COD talk gets annoying is because ppl dont realize what u just said. (that, and im just fucking sick of ppl constantly comparing the 2 games, like COD has somehow infested KZ with cancer. diff topic, i know). for u, all COD games are the same. and for average gamers, the KZ games are the same. yet each side knows there are variations within the games and changes will add more depth and excitement than the last installment. if players dont like it, they probably will give up on the series. COD, for all the things u may hate about it, is enticing to many ppl. i honestly dont think its just "hype" and advertising that snags ppl. its the gameplay. its the vast weapons. its the cheap perks and cheap kills. killzone plays so differently, i just dont see why ppl keep comparing them over and over. let each be its own entity, i say.

Quote (nivasan6)
Guz, for someone who doesn't really like the Killzone franchise, you're really good at it.

he is good at anything he plays... a naturally talented gamer. i hate him for that, and of course admire him!


 
redhamuSLADate: Tuesday, 08/February/2011, 10:28:12 PM | Message # 124
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Warzone almost always fucks up my kdr cuz my random team mates almost always blow, HARD. So, it's me & my nubbers versus a party of at least 4. LOL. It's still attractive though cuz of the xp (getting kicked late in a match REALLY pisses me off).

I like bodycount, but you level up so slowly & the kill limit is way too low. (>_<)


 
nivasan6Date: Tuesday, 08/February/2011, 10:49:00 PM | Message # 125
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Kuzu, most guns in real life perform relatively similar to one another, granted they are in the same class of weaponry. In cod, yes, there are 10 different choices for SMG's, but are all 10 worth using? My point being is that very few people use all weapons, once they find one they like they stick to it. With that said I know you will most likely overlook it since as you said you prefer lots of weapons. The recoil in cod games are laughable. I wouldn't really call it recoil; recoil is too realistic for cod, lol.

On your point regarding the health system, the amount of damage sustained from bullets are probably greater in Killzone than in cod. But, from my experience the it does seem that players are more resistant to bullet damage in cod. In Killzone however people are more resistant to explosives, lol.

I'm sick of the cod talk all together, I bring it up because it is the latest game the clan has been playing. If the clan was playing BC2 or MoH, I would most likely compare Killzone to those franchises. I still strongly believe that the hype does entice people more so than the actual gameplay.

red, Warzone is the best, it only raises my k/d and w/l. Even if I have idiots on my team, we still end up winning. I memorized the one map in the beta for both Guerrilla Warfare and Warzone in one match for each mode, lol. I used to love Bodycount in Killzone 2, but for some reason it's dull in Killzone 3.

red, are you going to buy Killzone 3? I ask because you said if there's no deathmatch you most likely will not buy it.

Has anyone noticed that it's some what hard getting headshots in Killzone 3 compared to Killzone 2. I know red used to bitch about the SMG in Killzone 2 for almost always guaranteeing a headshot, but in Killzone 3 it's not a headshot machine. I used to get a lot of headshots in Killzone 2, but I barely get any in Killzone 3. I do like that the Tactician bots are actually useful. I got a 3 kill streak with one.

Kuzu, even if you set back in a map you theoretically should be getting monster kills with the LMG. I actually prefer run n' gun in Killzone because I feel that I have an advantage over most if not all the players. I say this because I grew up playing Killzone and tactical shooters in general.

 
KuzuDate: Tuesday, 08/February/2011, 10:50:25 PM | Message # 126
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am seriously reconsidering (not) getting this game. i know ive only seen one map, but im just not that into the game. i was excited doing research, but with first-hand experience playing it, i dont find it all that "fun". the 2 main factor for me will always be how it handles, and the guns. i dont like the way the controls work. its hard to explain. its like, it starts out really slow, taking 1 second to move left-right, but after that i can move fine. its not really that is weighty, its that it feels inconsitent; slower for the first movement, then aiming is normal speed. also, i seem to have less field of view and almost feel claustrophobic. it just feels suffocating. and i just dont get excited using the diff guns. and another biggy for me is the sounds. the gun sounds in particular are very bland and boring for me. using a m16, i like how it sounds/feels. using a m82 feels like a long-range paintball gun. i guess thats it; most of these guns feel so fake, they have no realism, that grit, that i feel when using things like a dirty AK47 or the recoil and thump from a M60. sound effects and the feel of guns probably are my biggest turn on/turn off. and this game doesnt do it for me. sorry guys (or guy? lol). dunno who is even gonna play this besides niva.

i think ill go and get Bad Company 2.


 
nivasan6Date: Tuesday, 08/February/2011, 10:53:07 PM | Message # 127
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lol, Kuzu nice finishing touch. I may be the only in the clan other than Marsh to play it. I'm not sure if Duxy or Alu are getting it.

As I told Guz, if you guys are getting BC2 I will join you shortly.

 
GuzmanDate: Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 0:59:44 AM | Message # 128
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The standard LMG (1st Tier Engineer?) doesn't bother me all that much, to be clear. It's the 3rd Tier Engineer one "Sta3" (Looks like the KZ2 one) The description goes something like "Accuracy is overrated...." That's the messy one. I haven't seen many due to the high unlock.

Quote (Kuzu)
i know i am guilty of getting carried away with my comments, making broad generalizations, assuming before asking, and being an ass, at times. Sowwy guys!

Nah. You might get a little carried away sometimes, but we all do it. it's definitely easy to do for sure. Just remember we are all buddies here; no reason to get hostile. ^_-

Quote (nivasan6)
Guz, I know that I'm being general here, but you can put the same skillset that military type shooters have into the Resistance franchise and be successful. I mentioned in a post earlier about how the weapons in Resistance have counter parts in real weaponry.

Right, yeah, I saw that. That's what I meant by my post being dated, lol! I just didn't get to acknowledge it.

Quote (nivasan6)
Guz, for someone who doesn't really like the Killzone franchise, you're really good at it. If I'm not mistaken you have the best k/d in the clan for the beta, but a somewhat disappointing w/l.

Really? What is my win/loss? I kinda would've though it would've been better than my KD, to be honest. It was strange cause I remember when I first started playing, I thought: "Wow. I don't think I've lost a game yet." I mainly played TDM, If I were to guess, I'd think I won ~50 games to every 5 lost. *Shrug*

Quote (nivasan6)
Guz, crouching does help a lot since it makes since it would increase one's accuracy.

Yeah, but it's typically a subtle improvement at best. In KZ3, it can mean the difference between a quick burst or ~20 bullets, depending on range.


Message edited by Guzman - Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 1:01:10 AM
 
GuzmanDate: Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 1:00:05 AM | Message # 129
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Quote (nivasan6)
I hate how there are no spawn grenades, the capturing of spawn points is rather dumb and if a team gets all of them and holds them than it's essentially game over. I played a match with Alu, but he left and the other team had all three spawn points, my team did end up winning 4-3. Tactician is almost useless unless there are a few on your team. But, even then they shouldn't have removed the spawn nades. Now the Tactician class isn't tactical at all, lol, unless the person playing the class is tactical. By not having spawn nades the game is almost encouraging base camping, and I hate base camping. It was prevalent and easy to do in Killzone 2, but at least you know you had a way out and let everyone out too; with a well placed spawn nade.

I don't know if it's just that map, but Warzone can feel very lopsided at times. I haven't actually figured up the "Imbalanced Objectives," as they may be balanced in the number of difficult objectives for each side, but some of those are very hard to fight for. Like capture & Hold for example. There are 2 areas to cap on snow side, & one inside. Good luck getting the one in the middle if your team isn't on snow side. The map basically feels cut in half. Getting in, or out, to the other side alive is a challenge, & regardless of where I went, there'd be baddies posted up.. For a real level of success, I group effort is needed to push an area, w/ diverse classes to cover all bases. Which potentially is strike against the game, because as we all know, the shitty rendoms are always on your team. ALWAYS! Also, I'm w/ red. REPAIR the ammo crates please!

Quote (nivasan6)
I am most likely done with the beta since I didn't win the limited Helghast Edition sad , lol.

Winners are notified Feb 10-18th, by email. You haven't lost yet.

Kuz, if you're playing campy mode, I'd recommend doing the crouch bit, if you haven't. The LMG should def benefit.

 
GuzmanDate: Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 1:00:38 AM | Message # 130
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Quote (Kuzu)
about COD, i may be contradicting myself, but let me explain. in all of the COD games ive played (4, 6, 7), the same health system seems to be in place, and it is easy to kill people. i think u would agree, that is the main reason why ppl play it in the first place: get quick, easy kills. what i mean to say about BO, is that although the same stats apply, something about it is harder to kill mutliple players with one clip. maybe its the recoil. maybe players have learned not to bunch up so much. maybe ppl are just more aware and have better reactions. i dunno. i think we both agree that KZ is more of a team game, where players go for the objective much more than they do in COD. for that reason, players really bunch up in rooms, in stairways, in doorways, so maybe thats why its easier to get bigger multi-kills. im not saying its easier to kill in KZ, because overall i dont think that. i dont really know what my point is here.

I know where you're coming from. My guess would be connection issues & typically low clip weapons w/ high ROF. IDK though, it's kinda a conundrum, huh?

Quote (Kuzu)
i dont like the way the controls work. its hard to explain. its like, it starts out really slow, taking 1 second to move left-right, but after that i can move fine. its not really that is weighty, its that it feels inconsitent; slower for the first movement, then aiming is normal speed.

It's still got the whole deadzone & acceleration deal going on.

I Liked Bad Company OK, but I won't be getting it.
& Thanks for the kinda words, Kuzu, niva. I appreciate it!

(Sorry for the Super-Quotes!)
>_<

 
nivasan6Date: Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 1:16:08 AM | Message # 131
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Killzone is heavily unbalanced when it comes to certain maps. That map is terrible and it favors ISA way too much. What the hell is up with that? How the hell does a map on planet Helghan favor ISA over Helghast? That was the case in Killzone 2 as well. Salamun Market is the best map in the whole Killzone franchise because of its balance, and that's why I'm excited that it's in Killzone 3. I'm afraid they ruined it with the stupid predetermined spawn points. The objectives in Warzone are fairly balanced, it's just the maps. I hate the ISA with a passion and I'm also pissed that we can't join a faction when we get into a match a la Killzone 2. Sure the idea of switching factions during rounds is neat, but I prefer Helghast. Getting paired with useless players isn't all that bad. They have to learn too. Whenever I have my mic on, I try my best to help people out by directing them. Most of the time no one listens or gives a fuck, lol. Sometimes there are some nice people' I usually tell these people to follow me so they can see how I play.

All the LMG's are disgusting in every game, lol. That's the weapon of choice for scrubs.

Guz, I believe that your w/l was 1 something, it could be much higher than that especially if the stats weren't up to date on the site. I had a even 3, but my k/d dropped by almost 1, lol. I was at a 2.6, now I should be at 1.6+ if the stats are updated. That's where I was for Killzone 2 and my w/l for that game should've been really high too.

Ammo crates are overrated, pack in the extra ammo skill or keep picking up weapons, lol.

What, no Bad Company, why? I guess I'll see you again in Resistance 3. That's way too far away, lol. If you change your mind I'll most likely have it.

That's good to know that the winners will be announced later, I thought it was a immediate notification.

 
GuzmanDate: Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 4:00:32 PM | Message # 132
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Quote (nivasan6)
Whenever I have my mic on, I try my best to help people out by directing them.

How does that work out? Do they improve? Have you made buddies that way?

Quote (nivasan6)
Ammo crates are overrated, pack in the extra ammo skill or keep picking up weapons, lol.

I know, & I do. LOL.

Quote (nivasan6)
What, no Bad Company, why? I guess I'll see you again in Resistance 3. That's way too far away, lol. If you change your mind I'll most likely have it.

Yeah, sorry man. There's some other stuff coming out that I wanna get.

Last, the discussion has pretty much run it's course, but I finally figured out how to describe the controls in KZ, so I thought I'd throw it in here.
Essentially, I lack confidence when using them. The confidence that I can beat someone drops greatly when playing KZ. That's it.

 
AlucardDate: Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 6:55:47 PM | Message # 133
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niva, i didnt leave you that one game. my ps3 froze right after we got that assassination point and said to hell with it lol i was doing well too (T_T) and im still undecided on getting this or not....MvC3 comes out same time i think and there i have to see if theres a learning curve or not to play the new style(i havent played sf4) and baseball is in march.

 
GuzmanDate: Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 7:47:26 PM | Message # 134
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niva, they're running the contest again... This time from Feb 11-13th. So you might wanna get on the Beta those days.
 
redhamuSLADate: Wednesday, 09/February/2011, 9:22:48 PM | Message # 135
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Quote (Guzman)
Yeah, sorry man. There's some other stuff coming out that I wanna get.

Oooooh. Which games?


 
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